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Talk:Sejuani/@comment-15244341-20141007210104/@comment-15244341-20141008170533
Counter argument: Maokai and Nunu are not as vulnerable to counterjungling as Sejuani is. Not only they have sustain, but their insane base stats make it so that they cruise through the jungle camps with no issue and even one less buff, so even if they get invaded, they will recover with just some farm/gold. Sejuani, not so much, since she need sooooo mcuh gold. And it is a fair comparison, because those are the two pure tank junglers that are played now regularly. If the jungle gets tougher, Nunu and Mao will shrug their shoulders and keep doing what they already do. If the jungle gets tougher, Sej might need to go some silly rune page that stacks armor or something like that that further gimps her early game. I'm not saying Riot employees are cackling madly in their HQ while plotting Sejuani's downfall. I'm just saying that they don't ever seem to do anything for the weaker junglers. NEVER. And this is certainly not looking like it goes in the right direction. The Golem changes were actual nerfs for the weaker Tanks that actually bought the item (Sej and Naut). 250HP and 25 Armor is basically trash for a first big item buy. I don't even think Quill Coat has solved anything for those junglers at all. The sustain it gives and the damage passive are god awful, and the ward is nice but that's about it. I mean, sure, it helps Rammus. Good for the Rammus players, I guess, but it sure as hell isn't going to be picked except by those tanks whose base stats already are high as heck or those that scale with armor (Rammus and Malph). AoE tanks had no need for none of the item's passives, since they healed enough with SS and cleared faster with the bonus damage. Seeing how the "help tanks against early invades" plan went with the launch of Quill Coat, makes me fear for the weaker tanks. They are planning on giving counterjunglers (not just Nunu) a place in the game. If I ever pick Sejuani I know 100% sure that I'll get myself invaded sooner or later, unless the enemy has a jungler that is somehow weaker than Sej. And not camp stealing, but "wait till Sej is half health on a random brush and flash+kill her". I'm not saying that Sejuani or Nautilus should suddenly be the 1v1 lords, but as far as I'm concerned, nothing outside of changing the champions someway or making a new starting jungling item that somehow Lee/Elise/Kha/Flavor of the Month Jungler #19 can't get without crippling themselves but actually helps pure Tanks will make those picks good. Also, they want to make enchantment-like purchases available for jungle items late game. Wonder what items do those sound good for? Not Golem, since it is 100% a late game scaling item now. Also, I don't know if you were trying to be condescending or something, but I do max E when I plan to gank (if not, im sorry =/). Which is almost always, seeing as afk farming for level 6 is actually better as Amumu which can do so much earlier than Sej with Spirit Stone since he has almost no need to back. Mi issue is that if I try to gank, any of the "good" junglers just destroy me 2v2 or 3v3 pre 6. And if I try to farm, I'm actually better off picking something else that does more in the same amount of time. Because, again, Quill Coat is awful. That said, they just released a statement saying they are looking into helping Tanks (not only jungle tanks) with the new items. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see to start being fatalistic. It's just sad when one of your mains had this week in the past of being somewhat strong, then got nerfed, and her viability fell into oblivion for god knows how long, since she loses almost all of the jungle matchups. Heck, the last time I saw her as a tank was me playing her for fun in a ranked full of crazy champs (Yasuo, Lucian, Nami and Jayce). I only see AP Sejuani mid now. Which is ok and probably a lot of fun, but just not my style of play. So yeah, shutting up now, but I really hope Riot learn moderation with the new changes, or they will probably shoot themselves in the foot.